drew sagan

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Posts by drew sagan

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  23

  McCain says presence in Iraq for 100 years if necessary. Clinton on Rush

  by dawg in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  you all have heard from me that hillary clinton will do anything to get elected, she's already distorted obama's record on nafta, while lying about the fact she's spoken highly of it.

  and now i hear her husband bill, appeared on rush limbaugh... wtf?

  rush recently said that republicans should vote for hillary to upset the party and bill goes on his show?

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  drew sagan

  The McCain 100 year war comment has been discussed Ad Naseum throughout the internet.
  
  I disagreed with the war from the beginning. I remember sitting in my car listening live to Colin Powell address the United Nations and thinking to myself "what a crock!"
  
  With that said (so I don't have to defend myself later) to characterize what McCain said as battle that will rage for 100 years is incorrect.
  
  It is a very clear case of the Democrats have adopting some tactics similar to what we saw in 04. Within a few hours of a comment being made by an opponent on the campaign trail they are able to distribute it to all of their core constituents with their own preconceived message attached. It is a great strategy because you are able to define a person by conroversy rather than letting that person define themselves (remember the 'swift boat' thing). In this case the DNC came out with a memo (as i vaguely recall) that made this "point".
  
  McCain was talking about American presence in a region like it has in South Korea, where no American soldiers are being harmed. He has actually made this argument a number of times (without the 100 years). There is a pretty good fact check on the internet discussing this, but I can't seem to find it. It is mentioned in this article:
  
  http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/cleveland_clinkers.html"

  We need real leadership,we don't need leaders who pander to fear... this needs to stop sometime.

  Good luck with that one ;)
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  10

  Animated video of jehovah sending new light to his people.

  by Wasanelder Once in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, it is what it is.

  let me know what you think.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia_habzrjcw w.once

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  drew sagan

  Not to put a damper on things, but I never really understood what the big deal on that particular flip flop was. There are so many other flops that have a lot more substance to them IMO (not to mention outright contradictions!)
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  16

  JW divorce rate higher than adverage - pew forum

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one statistic that i haven't seen talked about that was contained in the pew forum research poll was divorce rate.

  i was kind of shocked to see that when it comes to the percentage of members who are divorce jw's pulled an extra 2% over the national average.

  in this research poll only three groups come in higher than jws and two of them go under the categories of other christians & other faiths.

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  drew sagan

  Priest73, are you still considered a JW? I believe those in the survey who said they were divorced were also active members of the religion. If you left the faith then I don't think you would be counted in those numbers ;)
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  16

  JW divorce rate higher than adverage - pew forum

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one statistic that i haven't seen talked about that was contained in the pew forum research poll was divorce rate.

  i was kind of shocked to see that when it comes to the percentage of members who are divorce jw's pulled an extra 2% over the national average.

  in this research poll only three groups come in higher than jws and two of them go under the categories of other christians & other faiths.

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  drew sagan

  One statistic that I haven't seen talked about that was contained in the pew forum research poll was Divorce rate. I was kind of shocked to see that when it comes to the percentage of members who are divorce JW's pulled an extra 2% over the national average.
  
  JWs have long promulgated a number of myths regarding divorce rates throughout the world. Their magazines are full of articles that talk about divorce rates in other religions, provided as proof that such faiths have "lost their way" and are suffering for not following Gods standards. In this research poll Only three groups come in higher than JWs and two of them go under the categories of Other Christians & Other Faiths.
  
  Lets take a look at the numbers:
  
  % of Divorced or separated
  
  National Total: 12%
  
  Catholics: 10%
  
  Mormons: 9%
  
  Orthodox: 9%
  
  Jehovah's Witnesses: 14%
  
  Other Christians: 19%
  
  Muslims: 9%
  
  Buddhists: 12%
  
  Other Faiths: 15%
  
  Unaffiliated: 12%
  
  ---
  
  I didn't put all of the categories up that were in the poll, just a sampling of what was there. I found it interesting that divorce rates were higher for JWs than Catholics, being that the JWs never cease their complaints about how immoral they think they are.
  
  So even if this isn't a big enough sampling to have exact figures, I think the main point is that JWs certainly are not better when it comes to the rest of the country when it comes to divorce. While JWs may want to say that they are morally superior in this regard, this study shows that they are at the very least equal to the divorce rate of other religions in the country and could possibly be higher.
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  46

  Zeitgeist - anyone for a discussion?

  by Shawn10538 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am starting a sort of campaign to get this movie distributed and have as many people as possible get exposed to it.

  the documentary is in 3 parts.

  part one deals with the pagan mythological origins of bible myths, part 2 is about 9/11 and supports the theory that the towers were demolitioned and part 3 deals with the federal reserve agressive take over in the 1920s by international bankers.

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  drew sagan

  What I find really amazing in that kind of stuff (which I find to be strikingly similar in structure to the Christian apologetic, creationist or apocalyptic theses of the apparent "opposite side") is that it seems to have a ready popular audience in America which it could never dream of gathering in Western Europe. And I really wonder why.
  
  It's not simply a matter of (lack of) education imo. There seems to be a national taste for totalistic, consistent, simplistic explanations that reduce the variety and complexity of phenomena to a clear pattern (the "manifest destiny" of the founding American myth comes to mind).

  You are very correct in stating that this is not due to a lack of education. I would also agree that such ideas do especially have some rather striking comparisons with apocalyptic type movements.
  
  My opinion is that whether you believe in an apocalyptic message or subscribe to a "academic" theories (conspiracy theories more like it) about how the world is controlled by wicked institutions you still are essentially buying into the same concept. Each comes with its own clothing that makes itself unique, but when you get down to it's core both are controlled by a simplistic method that seeks to understand of how there is evil in the world. They both simplistically describe evil, and prop up rather vague generalizations to support their ideas. I suppose American ideas may play into this more so than in other places througout the world. Hell, we're the ones that created Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormomns, Christian Scientists, Seventh Day Adventists, The Worldwide Church of God, and Scientology just to name a few!
  
  I very much think you would enjoy reading this book Narkissos, if you haven't already:
  
  Arguing the Apocalypse: A Theory of Millennial Rhetoric
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  16

  Rahab lied should be Disfellowshiped! Stupidest Watchtower logic ever!

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  rahab hides 2 isrealite spies in the attic and then full on lies!!

  yet james 2;25 says:"rahab the harlot was declared righteous by her works.".

  joshua 2;5 ....i did not know from where they were {lie no.1}.....by dark the men went out {lie no.2} ...i do not know where the men have gone.

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  drew sagan

  If it is good for you to lie and hide things, doesn't that kind of kill the purpose of "making a stand".
  
  Why didn't the JWs in Nazi Germany lie to the government about who they where?
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  34

  WATCHTOWER ... Take a look at your literature!!!

  by What-A-Coincidence in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my mother, who spent 30 plus years in the org and after finding out all the scandals asked me, "when are you taking out the wt trash?

  " hee hee hee.

  peace out!!!.

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  drew sagan

  I actually would have taken those. Oh well ;)
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  14

  Important and Exciting Announcement Next Service Meeting - BE THERE!

  by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "important and exciting announcement next thursday".

  okay, so that subject has reappeared several times on this forum, but turns out to be the new hall cleaning schedule.

  "another stupid jw email going around".

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  drew sagan

  I've always thought it would be fun to get those kind of things in circulation. The more nonsense you get out there the better IMO.
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  33

  What makes a 'true' christian?

  by Caedes in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there are some very sensible christians on this board and some that are not so sensible, what i dont understand is why there isn't more protest when the likes of real one and hibiscusfire claim to know what makes a 'real' christian.

  it annoys me and i'm not even a theist, a recent thread on a bible topic had a christian claiming that the bible was worthless unless you believe it to be infallible.

  apart from insulting the study of the bible as an important part literary history it also undermines the perfectly valid faith of a majority of christians whose view of the bible isn't so blinkered.. i suppose it is not much different from people claiming that they know what my morals are because i'm an atheist.. what does everyone else think of this kind of fundamentalist thinking.

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  drew sagan

  I firmly believe the actions and thoughts of many fundamentalists are dominated by one thing:
  
  Fear
  
  Lawrence Krauss (a physicist) was on Cspan a few weeks back. One of the things he touched on that was when it came to the evolution vs. intelligent design "debate" most of what he saw dominating the discussion was not any real debatable information, but instead rhetoric that was based upon fear. Fear of what could and "does" happen when certain options are entertained.
  
  One major example of this is the "downward spiral" that is always talked about fundamentalists. They will say things like "once a Church finds evolution acceptable, next thing you know there are homosexuals taking over the leadership and they don't know if Jesus was real or not". Such loaded and absurd statements are quite common. I didn't make up that statement BTW, it's something I heard Ken Ham say, founder of Answers in Genesis (creation museum).
  
  It's this kind of fear that makes some born again Christians living in the United States during the 21st century to actually think that government sponsored sex education is the equivalent of persecution early Christians faced when they were fed to the lions.
  
  For the most part, I think that there is a time warp. Many fundamentalists have made it their goal to be against anything secular. It scares them because they may actually have to compromise, and if they compromise they afraid they will be irrelevant.
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  16

  Anyone near central PENNSYLVANIA ??

  by HSS1971 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just trying to connect with some old acquaintances to discuss and compare notes.

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  drew sagan

  You're a bit far off from us, we're in Pittsburgh.